E1 Illithids

Hello and welcome to the Monster Mechanics Podcast, where we dissect creatures of myth and media to see how they can be improved. I am your host, Scott Paladin, and with me, as always, is the Simon to my Garfunkel, Zack Jaques. Zach, what's today's episode?

Today we're talking about Illithids.

All right, Great. And for those of us who are maybe not total D and D nerds, what are illithids?

So they are a empire of brain eating monsters from the underdark.

Okay. They are probably one of the weirder creatures in D and D. Right. They have tentacle mouths. They reproduce by taking over other creatures. Right.

So they're all about brains, eating brains, infesting brains, dominating other creatures.

So let's. Let's sort of think about how these guys will structure into a world they're residents of. The underdark.

They are.

Which means that they, unlike in this world, this is a massive cave system in most of these. In most D and D worlds, right? Like absolutely globe spanning under dark.

Oh, yeah.

Okay. They have no shortage of food, I guess is the way I'm thinking out of it. So if I remember correctly from the Monstrous Manual, they have to eat intelligent brain.

They have to eat intelligent living brain.

So these guys are not just apex predators. They're like. They have to take on absolutely like living human people or something equivalent dwarves.

Or drought or something. They aren't all that picky when it comes to their. To their food sources, as long as it's intelligent.

So the immediate question that comes to me is what is it about intelligent creatures that satisfies their hunger?

It may just be brain composition, or perhaps they're getting sustenance from the memories within.

I like that idea of the sustenance from the memories within. Because if we're thinking biologically, there's not really any difference between an intelligent creature's brain and a non intelligent creature's brain. Just chemically, structurally, anything like that, sure. At least not when you ingest it. So it's got to be something about intelligence. I like memories. Memories is good.

Well, when you consider that they're sort of deities, are these things called elder brains?

Those aren't just deities though too. That's part of their biology, right?

It is. It's actually a collection of mind flayer brains. The past, it just absorbs the memories and abilities of previous mind flayers.

Okay. So here's an interesting take on it. If we're. If we stick with memories, maybe they. They actually use the memories Themselves as a sort of fuel source.

Interesting.

So they have to ingest new ones because they're constantly burning memories in order to power themselves. Like, these are powerful psionic creatures, right? So in order to use any of the magic that makes them powerful and keeps them alive, they are constantly consuming the memories of themselves, the things they contain within them. And by extracting them from another creature, they refill that sack inside of them.

Memory sack, I like.

Sack is a great word because you can just imagine this thing with a tentacle mouth, like, injecting its words directly into your head, saying, like, I need you for my memory sack. Right. Like, that's great.

That's horrible.

Horrible is good. These are terrifying creatures. They should be horrible.

They. They are living nightmares.

Okay. So I like that idea that they actually have to take those memories in, which means it presents some interesting opportunities if they're denied food source. Because it means that over the coming weeks, let's say of the last time they feed first, they consume the newest memory, the redundant things that it doesn't need. All of the personal memories of that intelligent creature. Maybe if it's taken something on useful, like spells or intelligent knowledge, it'll say, okay, I'm going to keep that myself. But then at a certain point, I might have to start making decisions about, oh, well, I'm out of other memories to burn. I'm going to have to use some of my own or some knowledge that's valuable. Right. That. That creates a vulnerability for the creature, these otherwise terrifying monsters that you could actually create some interesting story aspects out of, the longer that they're away from their hive and away from a food source to, like, weaker they become.

So that kind of raises an interesting idea, is like, if you have these starving mind flayers that are now also suffering from dementia, so to speak, they.

Might lash out and become even sort of more feral.

Feral mind flayers roaming the underdark sense. Absolutely terrifying.

Well, and they. Because when they're in their enlarged group, they share a hive mind, is that right?

I believe so. At least through their elder brain.

Right. They get cut off or even. Ooh, okay. I think that creates some mind flayer lore that when they get expunged from their community for whatever reason, you know, if they have bad thoughts, then they get pushed out, and this is the fate that they know that they're gonna suffer is becoming the feral version of themselves.

Oh, sure. Yeah.

And that's the looming fear that holds over them the whole time. I like that idea a lot.

I would add Definitely a sense of desperation. And so if you have this desperate mind flayer who's now hunting sentient creatures just to keep itself sane.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And mind flayers, I mean, once they're pushed out of the colony, they have no hope of living outside of it. Well, I mean, they can live their own, their own lifespan, but they're not going to be able to breed. Right. Because they need the elder brain tank.

I believe so. Yeah.

So let's do a little bit of lesson in the mind flayer life cycle. Just a broad overview. We have the main mind flayer, the illithid.

Sure.

Which is the size of a regular whatever creature it took over when it became itself. So it'll be the size of a man or an orc or an elf. And it has like a squid head on top of that with tentacles coming out where its mouth was. All right, so that's the normal one. I forget exactly how they produce the tadpoles.

They are considered to be hermaphroditic creatures. And two to three times during their life cycle they will spawn these tadpoles.

Okay. And so the tadpoles are put into the pool of the elder brain, a.

Vat of cerebral fluid, I believe.

That's so gross. I love it. Okay. I have to say they vomit these tadpoles into the elder brain fat because that's just the worst possible way for them to deposit them. Okay. So they vomit this. Just a slurry of tadpoles. And actually the tadpoles are a food source for the elder brain. Right. Maybe that's what I've read. But I like the idea that that's how they keep the elder brain fed.

I'm picturing a jab with a hut. With those little tadpole newt things he has that he snacks on.

Maybe that. But the tadpole Jabba the Hutt's a good way to think about it because they are sort of this huge immobile thing that bosses everybody else around. So these little tadpoles, for the most part, they produce however many of them. Most of those don't go on to become full illithids. They're only occasionally selected. And you know, when they want to make a new full size illithid, they've already had these things sort of in a stock.

Yeah.

And they want to make a new one. So they grab a living, intelligent creature, usually a human or a drow or a.

Sure.

Under dark for some reason.

But it's not limited to just humanoid creatures.

We'll get to that in A second. So. But the normal. The standard version is they. They bring these out and they let the. The tadpole climb inside that thing's head.

Usually through the ear canal.

Ear canal is good. I think up the nose is also really good because there's that soft tissue in there and like that. Yeah. Okay.

If you really want to go for the body horror, you go through eye sockets or just about anything else.

Yeah, that's true. I think nose, ears, eye sockets are all valid targets because these little guys have chompy teeth. I bet.

Oh, yeah.

I'll bet you could hear the chewing.

I've often heard described as like a beak, like an octopus.

Oh, that's great. Okay, so then it goes in and that it eats the brain from the inside out. Right. And then. Or something along those lines.

Yeah. It nests within the brain and can occasionally, in doing so, gain the memories of its host. It's rare, but it happens.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. So it mostly destroys the brain. Maybe it keeps a little bit around, and then it overtakes the head of the original creature and I think even does modify the body some.

Oh, yeah. It becomes weird, gross, rubbery, aquatic amphibian kind of thing.

And so that's how you get new illithids. But then at a certain point with. As it grows older, the illithid joins with the elder brain. Right.

They. Yeah. Towards the end of its life cycle.

Right. And I don't. I don't think I heard how that process was described, so maybe that's something we thought.

So when a illithid dies, its brain is removed and given to the elder brain. This is supposed to be sort of like uploading your conscience to the clouds and, you know, gaining immortality that way.

Okay.

But the dark secret of the illithids that the elder brains don't tell you is you don't gain that immortality. It just. It gains your memories.

Okay. Yeah. You're not brought into the hive mind. You're not part of it.

You're just more food.

Okay. So. But because this elder brain stage of life is such an important part of the illithid's life cycle, if it's on its own and it doesn't have an elder brain, it's done. It doesn't have any descendants. It's not going to form a new illithid community. That's excellent. I like that idea.

It's the end of its legacy, so to speak.

Right. All right, let's get a little bit into the nitty gritty. They eat brains, so they've got to get Access to those brains. Now, they're very intelligent, so that we can imagine they have tools. So a cultured mind flayer might peel back the flap of the skin and then get a bone saw in and pull the cap off the top of your skull and then slowly eat. Maybe there's a whole bunch of them gathered around with spoons or something.

Well, I'm not gonna be sleeping well tonight.

But they didn't always have tools. At the feral stage, they can still get access to brains, right? So that means they have to either go in through the skull itself, which is the strongest part of most creatures bodies. It's a case of bone, because brains are so important that they have to be protected. There are some weak points. Maybe they have these tentacles for their mouths, which I've always imagined as being kind of soft, but there's no reason that has to be completely true. Maybe at the end of each of those tentacles, you've got something kind of like a hard tissue.

Have you seen a vampire squid?

Yeah. With the hooks?

Yeah.

Yes. Okay, so something along those lines. So they might be able to just punch through the thinner areas. So, you know, you can imagine one of these things having caught you and is holding you down and pushed like the same way that it does with its tadpoles. It might choose a soft spot of your. Of your skull, and just a tentacle might just be pushed in and crack through the skull at that point. Between those tentacles inside of that cluster, there's got to be a beak. Is that.

Oh, yeah.

Okay, so, okay, so I'd always imagined it like a lamprey's mouth, you know, a circular row of teeth.

Oh, that's nightmarish.

Which I think is worse than it, you know, and there could be multiple subspecies of illithids, right?

Oh, sure.

Okay. So maybe there's beaked ones. I like the lamprey one, because that gives them a second option for the brain, which is that they just sort of put that ring on the skull and then just start.

Like a glass cutter?

Yeah, like a glass cutter. Just sawing back and forth until they have a hole that they can just get right in there, maybe slurp the whole thing out like a jello shot.

Just please never make that noise again.

I think that's great. I mean, these are supposed to be terrifying creatures. And I have to admit, the artwork for them always makes them look a little bit dopey.

Yeah, a little bit.

But when you think about the implications of the way they interact with their world, I think they're legitimately Terrifying.

They really are. One of the things I want to talk about is what they have guarding the elder brains.

Okay, we talked about this just briefly. The idea that when you have telet poles, you don't have to put them into an intelligent creature. You have a whole menu, a smorgasbord of options. Right.

Well, this is even a little bit different than that.

This is.

They have something called brain golems.

Okay.

Where they use parts of the elder brain to create these creatures of sentient brain matter that. Now imagine any other species using their food as a golem. You might have a ham sandwich golem.

The meat golem.

Yes. Oh, I mean, technically, I suppose we have flesh golems, so that's not too far off the mark.

Yeah, but cerebral tissue isn't known for its, like, strength and mobility.

I have a feeling it's one of those. Sounds good in theory, until you start breaking it down.

Yeah. This seems like a ripe area to improve, actually, because brains aren't scary. Like, they're big soft things, you know? You should be able to punch a brain golem and put your fist like right through it, Right?

Sure, yeah.

Maybe it's an. Like, what do they do with the rest of the creature? Like, maybe this is all nerve, like peripheral nerve tissue they've pulled out of creatures like you crack open the spinal cord. Oh, man. Spinal columns themselves are pretty good, actually. Okay, so let's say you extract the brain and the spinal column all in one unit.

Oh, very predator.

Yeah, very predator. But like, it's a unskulled brain. It's unwrapped. They've shelled the brain and gotten to the gooey center. Or shelled the head and got into the gooey center.

Do you think they have like a skull hammer like you have for crabs?

No, I think it's the nutcracker style with the two. Where you've got the hinge and the two sections that go together. Yeah. Okay, so they've unshelved the brain and then you've got the. The spinal cord is still wrapped in vertebrae and maybe even some like, remnants of muscle. And then you take several of these brains and you. You join them together at the brain. And so what you have is a creature which is one big fat brain in the middle made up of like the still semi conscious, like, minds that were inside originally. And then its appendages are tentacles made of spinal cords.

That seems like a super hardcore grill.

Grel.

Okay, tell me, so grels are basically these giant floating brains with a beak.

And tentacles Yes, I remember these now.

But having spinal cords for tentacles sounds metal as.

I like that. I mean, if you turned a corner and you saw one of those, as opposed to just a big guy made out of brain, I mean, like, frankly, Krang is more scary than just a big brain guy.

Yeah, that's true.

Okay, so that's one option for. They're just gonna make. They just make these brain golems, right? This is a construct.

Yes.

But they have all of the other options for creatures that they can take their tadpoles and put them into. Do you want me to pull up the list of illustrated creatures?

Okay, so I know one of the main things they do when a tadpole isn't selected for the creation of a mind flayer. Like these tadpoles would just kind of flop around in the cerebral fluid and they'll eat each other. And usually like the last one surviving. If it's never put into sentient brain to become a mind flayer grows to become this sort of squid faced tentacle monster called a neothelid.

A neothelid? Yes. It's described here as a worm like creature with illithid tentacles forth from its body and immense mental powers. See, I'm not wild about the idea of it having immense mental powers if it has never been fed actual brain. If it has only ever lived off of other dumb. I mean, these are animal level intelligence. Sure, tadpoles. I think it would make a little bit more sense if it was still animal intelligence itself. Although can you imagine the idea of an animal level intelligence that also has intense like psionic and psychic powers? So it's. It's got nothing to direct that raw power with. It just uses it like that, like.

A battering, just instinctually.

Yeah, that's kind of cool. Okay, so here's some of the related creatures. We may not go through all of these. Let me pick out some of the good ones. But. So the top of them is the brain golem. I don't think we can talk about the brain stealer dragon, which is a mix of elephant and dragon, because that's a whole. That might be a whole episode into itself. That is terrifying.

That is. Yeah. A living nightmare. That's when your DM hates you.

The Kesreth is a living troop transport and battle platform created from the severed head of a shamed illithid.

How bad do you have to be for them to turn your head into an apc?

Oh man, that is. That's gross.

So maybe we should kind of move away from the actual list and focus on things like what would be the worst thing to turn into an illithid based creature?

Okay, so looking at this list, I see that they have a large number of underdark creatures.

Yeah.

So we're thinking about maybe surface level creatures.

Yeah.

So let's see. Dragon, of course, is the obvious choice. They're awful.

Just about anything flying would be terrifying.

So you can imagine like a. Even just something. Or like an arakoa. Right. Like a birdman that has a tentacle head and can just swoop down on you.

Oh, yeah, that'd be awful. That's Kenu.

Yeah, Kenu. The same sort of idea. What about those? Isn't there a. Like a mantis man that has like blade arms?

Mantis man that has blade arms. Oh, the. The thr.

Yes, the throne. Okay. Yeah.

How does that even work when you have an exoskeleton or.

And well, they can get through a skull. I'm sure.

Sure.

I'm sure they can get through an exoskeleton. In fact, it's probably. I mean, if thrones are based off mantis, they're pretty used to having their heads chewed off.

Okay, picture this nightmare, okay. A tortle, okay. Converted by an illithid.

Oh, I like that idea.

Little head pops out of the shell and then splits into four tentacles.

I think it doesn't have the. I think it uses that opportunity to not have the whole head come out. I think that the mass of the illithid skull stays within the shell the whole time and you just get tentacles.

Oh, God. That's some Cthulhu level nightmare.

Yeah, I like that. Oh, and maybe, let's see, they wouldn't be able to see then. So it's. But they have psionic powers.

They do.

So they can use their. Like a. Like a. Their mind sense to see out with. I like that idea. Yeah, that's. That's pretty nasty. So what is it about Illithids that keeps them from coming and taking over the surface?

Well, it kind of depends on the mythology. In certain variations on the lore, the Illithid are these planet spanning. You know, it's this empire of Illithid just across multiple planets, and they had thousands of slave races under their commands and there was nothing to stop them.

Yeah.

At one point.

Talking my jam now, because that's Spelljammer territory, which I absolutely love.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

The galaxy spanning empire of Mind Flayers is just. That's great.

It was considered that at one point the Illithid empire got so vast and Broad that the demons and devils considered ending their blood war to deal with the Illithid threat.

I love it. I love it. Okay, so they have two environments in which they are most suited and one is outer space and the other is underground.

Sure.

Okay. So that means they are horribly agoraphobic.

Oh, I like that. Yeah.

Okay. So because outer space you're actually spending most of your time in a ship or on a station. And so that if they, if they look out at the sky that like breaks their brain. There's something about trying to contemplate contemplating infinity. Oh, I like the idea that that causes some sort of psychosis in them.

Interesting.

That's a neat idea. Okay. And that gives an excellent idea for not only why they don't like the surface world, but also means there is ways to circumvent that by building on the surface world and having agents that go out instead. So you can imagine a scenario where they figured out oh, how we want to take over the surface world. They, you know, using wall of stone or something like that to create domes like terraforming the surface and then capturing creatures, converting them with their tadpoles into mind flayer creations and sending those out as their. As their agents.

So. So going back to them harvesting memories in their. Their memory sac. What if harvesting these surface world memories gives them a sort of temporary inoculation as they sort of gain an understanding of the above ground world after they've taken these brains.

Yes. They're able to hold on to that sort of the mind state of being able to look up at the sky normally just. That's normal. Like that's an idea. That's just. We're used to.

Yeah.

And they're able to take that in. But it's a kind of ephemeral thing. It does. It's not one that they can hold on to forever.

Sure. Eventually they're going to burn that memory.

Exactly. And so for a while they're good. But eventually it's going to break down. So they have to harvest new creatures and they can't raise stock of their own to harvest. They can't.

Yeah.

Because they need to be. What? They need to be wild humans. They need grass fed or sky fed humans.

Oh, I like that.

Organic sky fed humans in order to. That's. That's fantastic. I love that.

They can't. They can't replicate that in a slave pen.

No, no, no. You can't. You. I like the idea of taking this vulnerability to infinity as and bringing it into their mythos because they've got the elder brains as they're kind of God kings. Right?

Sure.

But they have to have something of a culture going on as well. And I like the idea that infinity might be their version of the devil. Oh, that's interesting because obviously if we're taking straight D and D world, our D and D cosmos, then they know about devils. Like there's the concrete devil.

Sure, yeah.

But to them there's something beyond that. There's something. The great king of all nothingness is infinity. Okay. They're very smart and they've been around a long time. So very far back in the Illithid history, they realized the idea of the heat death of the universe and they.

At some going hard sci fi with this. Okay, I like the.

I love, I like the idea of mixing hard sci fi and fantasy.

Oh, sure.

Because if, especially if we're talking something like Spelljammer, at some point in the past, a great mind flayer of the past, the great illithid scientist, realized, okay, the universe is going on and on and on, and it has to have. It doesn't have an end because that would make it finite. And if it goes on forever, eventually there's a, you know, there's a point where all of the entropy just catches up, where all of the potential energy in the whole universe has just broken down by friction and there's nothing but heat left. And there is no way to solve this. There is nothing that fixes this problem.

I like the idea that maybe the one who came up with this revelation was like the first elder brain.

Yes, the first brain.

Yes.

The first brain's a good name. Maybe. So maybe elder brains aren't part of their natural life cycle. Maybe that was something that was created at some point. But they lived in this twofold version of themselves where they had stage one, which is tadpole, stage two, which is illithid. And they would just sort of keep vats of these tadpoles around and use them as like a delicacy at a food source and then occasionally use one to make a new mind flayer. And then somebody comes up, some community comes up with the idea of. Actually it wouldn't be a community, it would be one guy, it would be one illithid who figures out, oh, I could be. I could be a big brain in a vat. But he needs other illithids to join in with them. So he comes up with the myth of them becoming the hive mind. But he knows that he's just going to be. I'm just going to take over. And I'm going to be super smart, and I'm going to have all of their knowledge.

Sure.

He tricks them all. It becomes the first Brain.

I like it.

I like this idea. Okay, so there's a way to write a whole mythos around this about the idea of the first brain, you know, and this is. There's two versions of the level of the legend. Right. There's the one that you tell the little. The little Illithids in bed at night.

Illithid bedtime stories is just.

Oh, except they. Of course, they wouldn't have them because they. They come into adulthood, like, immediately. They're full grown.

Yeah. But eat your heart out, grooms fairy tales.

Okay. But there's the one version, which is when a community of Illithids came together and created the first brain. And there's the other one, which you are told when you become a new elder brain, when a new elder brain is created, it's told the great secret, which is that when they came together, only one mind took over all the rest, and that this is a secret, the great secret that's been passed down from elder brain to elder brain for all of time.

Sure.

And there's two versions of the story. I love that idea. And that. But that first brain is the one who sat and thought and contemplated the end of the universe and discovered the great. I don't want to say the great evil, because these guys are very evil, so they wouldn't think of it as evil.

They could call it, like, the end of memory or something.

End of memory is a good phrase.

So another one of the various versions of where the Illithids came from is that they're actually from the end of time, as they were, and that they traveled back in time 2000 years before whenever your particular D and D campaign started. And they have sort of integrated themselves into the past of every culture.

Okay. I like that idea. That's using time. That fits right into this idea of trying to escape the end of the universe by traveling through time. But, you know, that doesn't work forever. I mean, like, there's only. You can keep going back, but it creates a spiral, But a spiral is still infinite.

Ooh.

Oh, God. They would if they. If they also hate spirals. And they would really hate that Junji Ito book about.

Who doesn't hate that, though?

Oh, man. That. That guy is a. Just take a slight aside. That guy is a master of taking something which should not be scary and making it absolutely horrifying.

It really is just unsettling.

If I could be half as scary as him, I would be very happy because I like coming up with these disturbing ideas. If I could do half as well as Junji Ito. So it's interesting because if they're scared of infinity, they're scared of the end of everything, then their primary purpose is just to survive. Or is there some greater aspect to the Illithid?

Are they trying to solve entropy?

Maybe?

Are they just this really far thinking, ultimately altruistic race?

No, they're definitely not ultimately altruistic.

They are absolutely brain eating nightmares.

They're brain eating nightmares. They're doing this for their own benefit.

Oh, yeah.

And so maybe they're trying to solve the, the great imbalance, which is that they need. They hate other living creatures, especially intelligent ones. They hate them. They can't stand that they exist. But they need them to exist because they need them to feed on.

Sure.

And so maybe that's the big struggle. That's one of the big struggles for them is the idea of, like, how do we solve this problem of, you know, we can't eradicate our food source, but we can't stand to have them around either.

So what if, like, what if the Illithid hate these surface creatures and really all other creatures who literally just don't have this concept of how terrible infinity is. And it's sort of almost an opiate to them where they get this memory of just forgetting how bad things are.

Oh, that's lovely. So there's a sort of. So their version of eating a lot of turkey and going into a food coma is instead the first memory, the first thing they consume out of a mind when they are eating it is the. Is just the peace of not knowing.

Yes. Feasting on ignorance.

Yes. That the first thing that they eat is just the comfort that we feel because we don't have this existential dread that they feel.

Yes.

And so they. You can just imagine it in Illithid's eyes, rolling back in its head and maybe like its little tentacles quivering as it just like, like. Oh, that's the best. Right? That's. That is. That is legitimately terrifying and like, identifiable. Like it's kind of. There's something about that which is strangely making them more human is not, is not making them better because they still want to eat brains.

Oh, yeah.

And they get great pleasure from it. And it, it makes, it gives them an ecstasy that's not in any way sexual. They just live to consume and are a little bit like drug addicts, like, oh, I gotta get back I gotta get that sweet brain juice in between my tentacles so that I can feel the sweet relief of not knowing.

Yes. Why wouldn't that work with unintelligent creatures? Then you would think that would give them maybe a greater sense.

Hmm, that's a good question. We've decided why they need intelligent creatures is because intelligent creatures form memories and thoughts. Thoughts and sort of concepts within their, their brain. And until unintelligent creatures just kind of don't, you know, maybe if you ate a dolphin you're going to get like 80% of what you get from a human. But you know, eating a dog is not. That doesn't satisfy.

Maybe it's more that they, they feed off humans ability to thrive with like cognitive dissonance where they can know one thing but not deal with it or.

That's a bit more esoteric than memory.

That's true.

And I think I like memories. You could put that into a monstrous manual and kind of explain it. If you're trying to give people the idea that they feast off knowing one thing but also knowing another thing at the same time, that's a bit, that's a bit esoteric. But I do like the idea that the ignorance is a drug for them. Okay. I like this. That not fearing infinity, that ignorance only exists when the mind is whole. When you first consume it, you get a great big hit off of that ignorance. And that's when all the pleasure comes. But as you start consuming the memories and breaking it apart, the gestalt of that idea breaks down. And so they're still eating those, those, those concepts, they're still eating the memories and everything. That's what provides them their magical sustenance. But no longer has that drug like effect. And because an animal creature doesn't have, isn't, isn't complex enough. You know, a dog doesn't understand affinity. Sure. And doesn't. And therefore because it doesn't understand it, there's no, there's no hit off of not fearing it. You know, there's no hit, there's no juice there for it. Sure. We'll eat one of those things. It'll get some regular sustenance from it. Maybe that's how these feral illithids we're talking about might stoop to surviving that way.

Oh yeah.

Is that they'll kill animal creatures, but it's, it's like a vampire draining the blood from a rat. You know, it's just, it's that it'll get them a little bit longer, but.

It won't really sustain Them it's the nutrient paste of.

Yes. It's soylent.

Yes.

Or bachelor chow.

So there's some other aspects that are kind of interesting that are already defined, and that's. They have the Elhoon, which I believe are lich based.

Oh, that's when an illithid wants to become a lich.

Yes.

Yeah. So this is an illithid which foregoes joining the elder brain.

Yes. And searches immortality in his own way.

This is interesting. Maybe this is what happens with Anilothid. Learns the great secret of the elder brains.

That is a possibility.

Do they still eat brains?

I believe they still eat brains. I don't know. Can you pull up the information on them?

Let's find out. Okay. So alhoons are not true liches because there are also illithid. Illith. Illiches.

Illith Ilitches.

Illith Ilitches. Which is terrible.

I just want to say we picked one of the worst words to start this podcast with.

That's why I've been trying to say mindflayer for the most part. Yeah. And why isn't that just illith or illich?

Because they got to get that multisyllable.

Monster or like a litholith or something. I don't know.

I don't know.

That is kind of ridiculous.

It's a lichelage.

It's a lichelar. Okay. Alhoons combine powerful wizardry and sorcery with their innate skill at psionics to become a new threat to the established order of the underdark and beyond. They have achieved a limited form of lichdom, which I think is a kind of a cop out, because I think lich has got to be all or nothing. If you can have demi lich, there probably are demi liches, aren't there?

Well, the demi lich is what was always stated as being a more powerful form of a lich, because.

So semi lich there can't be semi liches is what I mean.

Yeah. I was a quarter lich on my mother's side.

Yeah. They're pretty much just not full liches, but they are magic users and they're sort of half undead. I think this is something we could improve on because that seems like a half formed idea. I like the idea of the alhoons and the ill. I think they said alhun just because they didn't want to say illithilich.

I wouldn't put it past them. I don't want to say illithilich.

Yeah. Maybe this is just the natural Progression of when an illithid finds out the great secret about the elder brains. When I say natural, it's not like you learn it and then you immediately become an alhun, but rather that when they find out this secret, the elder brain, who controls the hive mind of this unit, immediately expunges that creature. Right. Because that's like an immune response. They're like, oh, it knows. It just immediately shoves him out.

Oh, yeah.

Which is hugely traumatic because you can't.

Hide secrets from the elder brain.

Exactly. And you can't hide. It's really difficult to hide secrets from the other elephants, too. So the only thing you can do is just cut contact out completely and then probably at that point, all the other illithids are going to turn on this, like.

Oh, sure, yeah. Like antibodies.

Yes. So he's got to be pushed out. And normally that's a death sentence. So lots of times that this. That somebody figures it out or has been written down.

They ate the brain of some, you know, surface researcher who's been looking into what actually happens with elder brains.

Yeah. Or they just. Maybe it's just written in some books which elephants just don't read normally.

You know, he just picks up a monstrous manual.

Hey, it says here, But I've got 86 hit points. But now it knows there's another option, a norm. When for whatever reason an illithid is normally pushed out of the hive mind, they become feral. Right. Like, they're just. They all are almost. So slowly they're going to be reduced to sort of animalistic levels. But this one has a. Now has an option. And so some number of those are going to start seeking out other available. They're like, okay, I don't have to just end. It's not the only option to join the hive mind so I can look for additional ways to extend my life, to gain more power. And they might go to the sort of mortal options, which are things like lichdom.

Yeah. So what if. So the idea of becoming a lich is you live forever. Right. Maybe they might consider this embracing infinity.

Oh, this is their deal with the devil.

Yeah.

This is like going to the crossroads.

Yes.

Okay. I like that because Lichten is always about making the deal, giving up something very important, sacrificing for and for. And now they really are going to live forever. They're guaranteed to see the thing they fear most, which is the, you know, the entire universe coming to its heat. Death.

Sure. Yeah.

They're going to come face to face with the end of memory and. But now that they're part of it. So you can imagine a collection of Alhoons and Illithid liches who come together for this great purpose that could be a counterbalancing against the. The Illithid Empire in the galaxy. You've got a separate group of Illithids who are on an. On an individual level, probably more powerful than your average Illithid because they've also got magical powers, they've got psionic powers, they are terrifying brain eaters, and they also can cast ninth level spells. So they're just not good.

Yeah.

So their entire philosophy is 100% opposed to the standard Illithid philosophy.

Oh yeah.

And so they are naturally going to be like to come to war to one another. Oh, yeah, I like that. I also like the idea of. It's the secret. The secret of what happens to Illithids who join the Elder Brain is a mimetic warfare that telling other Illithids about it gets them immediately pushed out of their own hive mind. And so introducing that knowledge into a colony, if you do it in a good enough way, you can eradicate an.

Entire colony of Illithids with simply an idea.

Yeah, it's like the. It's like. This is a stupid comparison, but there's a Monty Python sketch about the funniest joke ever created.

Yes, I'm aware.

They translate it into German and are reading it on the battlefield.

Oh, yeah.

So you can imagine like, okay, now this is an idea for an adventure right here. The whole point of why we're doing this is to come up with neat hooks. You could have an Al Hun using agents, in this case maybe party members, to introduce this idea to a colony of Illithids, to have it written on.

Paper, or to this mind killer idea.

In fact, maybe he's betraying his own agents by telling them this secret, sending them into the colony knowing that they're going to get killed and eaten. And that knowledge will then be spread amongst the Illithids. Oh, I like that. That's pretty cool.

And that gives you a very interesting adventure because it's not just the standard hack and slash. Cast your fireballs and move on. You've got the secondary goal that you have to complete to wipe out this.

And that goal could be kept secret, or it could be part of it. You also might see some of the effects of it during combat. Let's say that you've got. Maybe one of your players gets killed and then eaten. And then the players might see what happens in the colony as like The Illithids that fed on their friend's brain are immediately expunged and attacked by the other Illithids. So all of a sudden there's this, like, chaos. And so you could arrange for them to be captured and either. If you don't want to sacrifice a player character, you could always have an NPC along for the ride, sacrificial specifically for this purpose, and kill them off and let your players come to the conclusion on their own. You may have to end up explaining it to him because it's kind of esoteric. But that's like a fantastic scene right there. And you. I love the idea that they've been hired by someone who is ultimately also a villain. Like, there's no good people in this side. Like, killing Illithids, that's great.

That's par for the course in the Underdark.

Exactly. But at the same time, like, if you succeed that Alhoon does not have good plans like you have, you've probably increased his power in a way that is going to be bad for everybody.

Oh, yeah.

I love that idea. That is.

On the other hand, you have potentially wiped out a colony of Illithids. You've done at least a little bit of good.

Not if they all become Alhuns.

That's true.

I think that's much worse. But you can take that adventure in a lot of different ways, where the players might turn against the creature that hired them originally or try to, you know, wipe them out some other way. Or maybe they figure out a way to weaponize it themselves. And now the mortals have a. A great big stick that works against the Illithids, that they can use this information warfare in order to fight back against the terrifying creature. Like, that's. That's fantastic. That is a. That is a fantastic idea and a really good hook. I love that.

Yeah.

Well, I think, on that note, I think for we. We were at least done with this one episode about Illithids, we're gonna have to circle back around in the future, but definitely, that is great. All right. I have not come up with a.

Sign off yet, so here's us signing off.

Thank you for joining us on this episode of Monster Mechanics. You can find links and episode notes at our website, monstermechanics.org if you'd like to support us, head on over to patreon.com monsterpod we'd love to hear your feedback. We can be reached on Twitter at monstermpod or you can email us@monstermechanicspodcastmail.com Monster Mechanics is produced and edited by Scott Paladin. This episode was hosted by Scott Paladin and Zach Jaquays. All of the ideas generated in this episode are released on a do what the f you want public license.